Oh, Derby!
Wednesday, September 22, 2010 at 11:14AM An email from my husband yesterday reads "Derby was really bad". He had a meeting and Derby destroyed the couch. Again. For such a truly sweet, nice, loving dog...this is really hard to deal with and understand!
I thought I'd write a post on this since I've noticed a lot of friends talking about their pooches lately & to hopefully share tips and experiences with each other. Oh, there are also a lot of gratuitous Derby pics because we always say..."It's a good thing you're cute!"
A little background information: In April, we adopted Derby from a small Chicago rescue group. She is a great dog, but we weren't able to crate her due to her sheer panic of being in a closed in space and peeing and pooing all over and getting so worked up that it ended up all over her and the house. We gave up and decided to just let her roam in the house. This worked for awhile (after we learned that things like remotes, sunglasses and shoes need to be put away!), but she was always very anxious when we would leave and come home - heart racing, panting, panic. She has also started peeing and pooing when we are gone. She is the epitome of a velcro-dog and follows us around everywhere. This is a little better, as she no longer sits on my feet while I am putting on make-up :) she now sits on the bed in our adjoined room.
We are at a loss now, as we feel like prisoners of our pooch! We don't like to leave her alone for even an hour for fear of what we'll come home to. I know that sounds dramatic, but it is true. So, I'd like to throw out a couple of questions and things that I've been thinking about and see what everyone else thinks.
- Crate Training - do we try again? How do we start? I know the obvious basics of giving her a treat when she gets in, etc. but we find her to be so panicked that she leaves the treat laying there. Do we start at night? For example, putting the crate in our room and having her sleep in there for awhile so she learns it is her den. When we leave the house, should we just prepare ourselves for the (literal) shitstorm and clean-up hoping that she eventually grows out of it?
- Baby Gates - this didn't work for us, as she barrelled through it. We put a 50 pound weight on the other side & she leaped over it. We put a second, retractable one above the bottom one and she chewed through it. This might work for others though, so I wanted to at least mention it.
- Collars - Citronella for barking - we used it when we first got her (& in the crate) and would come home to a house that reeked of citronella and a frantic, barking dog. When she is out now, barking isn't the problem so much as the destructiveness and anxiety, though we can hear her from time to time when we are walking up the street to the house. Choke collars/Prong collars - Have you used these? For what purpose? What is the difference? I hate the thought of these, they make me sad. But, do they work? We walk Derby with a Gentle Leader harness (not the nose one) and it works WONDERS!
- Obedience Training - We went to classes at a local doggy daycare and were in time-out almost the entire time. She is so barky around other dogs that she would distract the other dogs and nothing was accomplished. I ended up in tears, it was so frustrating. I've worked with her to do sit, down and drop-it, but she only does it when she wants to do it! Has anyone had success with in-home private training? I think this could be a good option for us.
- Board and Train - I've been looking into Board and Train places where you drop off your dog for 2 or more weeks and they work one on one with a trainer, then you have a class with the trainer and dog so that you know what to do when you have them home. I am not sure if this is what we need to help with anxiety and crating, though, so not sure if this is a good option?
I have a vet appointment this afternoon to make sure there isn't anything wrong with her health-wise (perhaps to explain why she is peeing, etc. in the house when we're gone). What do you think? Do you have a dog with behavior problems? If so, what did you do to help?
Okay, one more picture...with her dad :)
Dog, Randomness 
Reader Comments (20)
Oh my dear, that has to be stressful!
Two things: I would definitely try putting the crate in your bedroom/next to the bed to see if she can make it through a few nights in there. Wear an old ratty tee shirt around for a few hours and put it in there with her too. I guess I'd work in baby steps: if she is ok for a few nights in your room, slowly start moving the crate towards the desired location.
One of Lucia's litter mates/brothers was given to a person who treated him poorly, so one of Justin's friends has him now. At first, Momo was REALLY destructive, and he was also really aggressive/mean. I refused to go their house because I'd heard stories. Anyway, his owner hired a personal trainer to come to their home, so Momo would be in a familiar environment. So far, he's done wonders! We went over to their house the other week, and he was a perfect gentleman...even super cuddly. Crazy...
That is great to hear! I am starting to lean towards that as well. I thought the Board & Train would be best, but I might give private training a shot before committing to that amount of time and expense.
I don't mind that she sleeps on the floor in our room, she is a great sleeper, but I feel like having her sleep in the crate will help associate it with being a good thing?
Oh she is such a cutie! Maybe she needs a little Dog Whisperer magic. Is that show still on? Would you ever apply to be on it? I wonder if there is a Chicago Dog Whisperer. Derby is so lucky to have such caring and patient parents!
MaPo, I checked! They only tape in LA - grr! :) I did submit a few questions to the site, so we'll see if they get picked. Sigh.
Lady, so sorry to hear/see the damage of Derby. I'd suggest a dog trainer to come to the house. Sounds like she's anxious. When I first got Huck, he would look at me and then pee on the carpet, and he ruined a pair of Prada prescription glasses. (I think I am still bitter after five years), but shortly there after he adjusted and he's been great ever since. Good news- dogs can change. Bad news- sounds like you need a seriously good dog trainer. Good luck!! She's just so cute.
Crate train. Buy any book by Dr. Ian Dunbar or Patricia McConnell or Susanne Clothier. I'll find a link to Susanne's blog and send to you.
Seriously: crate training!
I read somewhere that with crate training, it's good to just let them get used to the bottom half of the crate for a while and give lots of treats when Derby is in there. Then, when he's calm, add the top half of the crate and just praise the heck out of him when he's calm. Then, when you notice he's finally used to the crate itself, close the door, and again, lost of praise and treats! Crate training takes a while, and Millie used to whine whine whine in it for months. Now, it's really the ONLY place she will sleep. She sees it as her den. :)
Also, if Derby is bad, do not crate him. I usually put Millie in a time out (in our bathroom) for a few minutes if she is bad (all chewable things out of reach). Crates need to be a comfy zone for them and if they are crated when they are bad...they will see the crate as a bad place.
I agree with Katie. Millie was in our bedroom every night in her crate, right next to my bed when we first got her. A few months later, we finally got comfortable enough to put her in another room.
As far as peeing/pooing goes, I think naturally dogs do not want to soil themselves. Is the crate you have small enough? It should be just big enough to where they can walk in, turn around and chill. That way, if they go, it gets on them, and they don't like that.
I hope I didn't sound too weird here. I just watched a lot of Animal Planet and read tons of books on this when I first got our puppy. I hope this helps!
And I realize my brain is jello. Derby is a SHE. I'm sorry...please replace the "he" with "she" in my previous comment. :( Sorry!
I am the exception to most of the advice above. When I adopted the c-dog she had been left locked in the garage of a foreclosed home. The bank thinks she could have been there up to a month, possibly longer (her previous owners had bought a huge bag of food and ripped it open on the floor, and left a hose with running water on the floor though....how kind huh?). She was around 1 year old and I was determined to crate train her...it was a disaster. Confinement to a really small space of any kind makes her crazy...even now after 12 years we never lock her in anything smaller than our bedroom with attached master bath!
I wanted to comment b/c I know first hand how it feels when you feel like you are doing the right things but it's still not working. Everyone told me I had to force the crate training, but after 3 LONG months with destruction & escape methods that Houdini himself couldn't replicate... I hired a trainer that came to my home and worked with both of us. It was the best thing I could have done. Ends up the crate was making our situation worse. We did things like using the baby gate to keep the dog in the living room while I was working in the kitchen, or keeping her in the kitchen while I was watching tv in the living room. Things where she knew I was there but couldn't see me. For months I left the tv on while I was away to mimic someone talking in the other room. Eventually those little steps added up, and months later she had free roam of the apartment and behaved like the little lady she is. But those first few months...they were hard!
Hang in there...you'll figure out what works best for you and Derby!
Everyone, thank you so much for the advice! I love reading other experiences, even if all dogs are different. I am going to start off by calling the trainer and getting the books that Marisa recommends - and just work, work, work with her until we get there!
Someone already mentioned the Dog Whisperer, but I don't think you actually need him to come out so much as to apply his basic principles. Have you watched much of the show or read any of his books? Obviously there is a lot more to it that I can jot down in a comment here, but one of the key concepts is "exercise, discipline, affection" in that order. How much exercise does she get a day? How much of that is in the form of a structured (disciplined) walk/jog/run? Releasing some of her energy in a positive way can make it easier to work on the undesirable behaviors you're seeing.
When we apopted Izzy, they told us the previous owners said she chewed on everything and wasn't potty trained. The peeps at the humane society said that we had to crate train. Izzy hated it at first. It took 2 weeks to get her in just the bottom of the crate. To get her used to it, I'd put her blanket from her doggie bed, a shirt that I had recently worn (and was going to give away) and some treats in her crate. We put her crate in our room at night, kept the door open and wouldn't let her sleep on the bed. After a few days she chose to sleep in the crate and not on the carpet. Now when she's in the room, she'll go lay in the crate. We still have problems getting her in there in the morning. I literally have to carry her in. She cries and sometimes bangs the the door. I have noticed that she does quiet down after 2 or 3 minutes.
We're hoping to try and move her crate to the family room soon. One thing we learned is that tiring her is the best way to get her to behave whether we're around or not. She goes on long walks in the morning, about 30-40 minutes and to the dog park every afternoon if it's not raining. By 7pm she's ready for bed. On days I work from home, she's pretty much sleeps until about 3pm because of all the playing.
Oh, our obedience class teacher said that maybe giving her extra special treats will make her like her crate...like cheese or chicken hot dogs. You only give them those treats when they are in the crate or learning a trick.
Ah, yes!! Using the bottom half of the crate as his sleeping spot is a great idea, this is true. Also, the ugly airline carriers are better for dogs than the wire ones (they feel less trapped and exposed, more secure), sorry.
You can spend a few days just tossing treats in there but not trying to keep her in there. GOOD treats, like the kind that are, you know, made up of chicken! Or jerky! Or sausage! Or something super awesome! (Ours love pizza. Ahem.)
And, um, until this is under control, you'll need to help her out to confine her to an area where she won't be able to chew on something. And buy many Kongs, filled with awesome things like peanut butter (and the aforementioned sausage). You're essentially training her to release the anxiety (dogs lessen anxiety by chewing) in a good way, not a couch way. And you go crazy with love or awesome food when she uses the right outlet (Kong and chew toys) versus the bad outlets (couch!).
http://flyingdogpress.com/content/category/4/13/97/ Suzanne Clothier's blog - awesome. The articles are really good, though I can't recall if she has one on crate training. If you have a bit of time, "Bones Would Rain From the Sky" is mind-bogglingly wonderful.
You can do this. It's little tiny steps that add up to big improvement.
Dear Kristin, Sorry about your couch!
I know how hard it is with a rescue dog. Mine is nearly 10 mos. old. Tonight she walked nearly a mile by my side with her choke collar on when 7 mos. ago she was shaking and running away from a leash, forget the collar! I have had a lot of support and encouragement from my friends. (I'll spare you from her barking issues. However, there has been improvement!)
I had a hard time getting her in the cage but I like your idea of putting a big wrap around cage in your bedroom and leading her in with lots of treat or a squeaky toy. Would a hand-sown doggie pillow help? Fortunately my dog is smart enough to not sh** where she sleeps but I have a cat that if she needs to get my attention she will come in the room where I am, stare at me and pee right on the carpet! This only happened once when she wanted her headgear off from an injury. It sounds like Derby does the pooping in the cage because of the anxiety, it's behavioral. That's common. You seem to have the right idea by doing your best to not be someone who increases her anxiousness. I spoke to a trainer who with a flat fee will be there with you and your dog for life. http://www.barkbusters.com/
It's about finding what works. I promise it will get better and your four legged friend is the luckiest to have you and your hubby as parents!
PS. My dog REALLY LOVES CHEESE! I had to give her medicine after she was fixed and she'd do just about anything for cheese. It only took me a few days to figure that one out!!!
It sounds like Derby has separation anxiety -- Jellyby has the same issue. :-( There are a number of great resources on the internet for dealing with separation anxiety through a combo of cognitive behavioral therapy (for ex., leaving for 10 seconds, then coming back before the dog gets anxious, leaving for 20 seconds, then coming back, etc. etc. until your dog gets used to your being gone for prolonged periods of time), medications (clomicalm is the common drug for s.a.), and distraction toys (kongs, etc.).
Crate training didn't work for us (Jelly was shipped to us in a crate and associates it with very bad things). But the combo of the clomicalm and training and finding her safe place (she loves the car) has made her (and our) life much much better.
Good luck! Keep us updated on how it goes.
I'm just popping over from Jenna's blog - and nearly did a double take: my parents adopted (from a pet fostering place back in Australia) a pup, Bailey, who looks identical to your Derby AND is similarly destructive. We're not sure where she came from, or even what her mix is (we've been told part pointer, part beagle, part kelpie) but wow, she's a real handful. She's an outside dog, because she just would. not. function. indoors. Same thing happened when they tried to take her to puppy school. They're currently on the lookout for another obedience school, that maybe specialises in 'nervous' or 'difficult' dogs.. so hopefully there'll be another option out there for you too!
Oh my goodness, all of this advice is incredible! Ted and I are going to go over all of it - we are determined to have a happy, healthy dog!
We went to the vest last night & she had infected anal glands, so that could account for some of her misery and bathroom issues. She is on an antibiotic, so that should clear up soon! The vet also recommended these calming floral drops for her water - has anyone used those?
Marisa - thank you so much for the link and book recs. We have rockstar treats that she goes nuts for (something organic, no-fillers, etc.) and will start reserving those for the crate only. Sausage is on the list! She does love peanut butter in her Kong, so that is good.
Catherine - she is also a cheese whore, so I will start breaking up bits of it to keep in the refrigerator at our disposal. It is nice to hear that Izzy eventually calms down.
Our next step is to find a place where she won't be destructive. I am thinking the 2nd bathroom for now. I feel like she will go nuts feeling like she is closed in in there, so will definitely make sure to load up Kongs for her.
You guys are AWESOME! Thank you so, so, so much!
I went through the same thing a few years ago when we adopted a pit mix from a local resuce group too. He had the worst separation anxiety ever. He hated being left alone and for the first month, we couldn't leave him alone AT ALL. The first time we tried to leave our place, he bolted out the door and became a dead weight. He didn't try to run away but refused to go inside unless we did. We bought him a crate and barked and barked and thrashed so much it collapsed (it was a wire crate) because he hates being confined...he also chewed through a door in my moms basement because it had swung shut behind him.
I ended up taking time off work and slowly getting him used to me leaving. I bought him a Kong that I would fill will PB or other treats and started with 5 mins and worked my way up to 3-4 hours. At that point, my husband would come home and walk him during lunch but when he changed jobs, and couldnt do that anymore, he started having accidents in the house...alot. We ended up taking him to Stay for daycare and that seems to have done the trick. At first, we'd take him every day, then we tapered to 2-3 times a week. It tired him out and he seems to be reassued that even if he doesnt see us for a w hile, we always come back for him.
Because of scheduling i can't take him anymore but we got a dog walker and he loves her! We use Chicago Petsitters and the accidents have been few and far between.
He went from the worst dog ever (i thought i would end up single bc of him! ) to the best sweetest dog ever....who only gets nervous if he's alone more than 6 hours.
My dog was EXACTLY the same way. I started taking her to doggie daycare when I went to work so that someon was watching her the entire time, she got a lot of exercise, and she wasn't alone. The cost spent there far outweighed the cost of having to pay for all the stuff she destroyed. Burning off a lot of energy really helped. Then, I also tried really hard to have a routine so that she expected me to be gone and knew that I would always come back, that helped too. We tried crate training, and she got out of all the crates we tried, baby gates were pointless because she was an escape artist. And, now she also takes doggy anxiety meds on days that I know are going to be especially stressful. Things are MUCH better now, but I worry about taking her to other people's homes (like my mom) because I never know what will happen.